Episode 14: Double Albums; Dylan Redux, music news
The Stage Banter team argues the merits of the dreaded & lauded, loved & hated, sinful savior known as the double album. We'll play tracks to make our points. We also review the recent concert by Bob Dylan in Fort Wayne, IN, amend our 'Modern Times' reviews, share recent music news, and belatedly review moderately recent releases by Swearing at Motorists and Golden Smog.
29 Comments:
Frank Black, in a recent NUVO interview, said this about long records...
"Every time you put out a damn record that’s long, people say that. Sure. You could edit it down to the three best songs, for crying out loud. But that’s not the point. The point is to put out a hunk of something that people can listen to, whenever, for years to come."
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I tend to agree with FB. I would rather revisit some tail-end tracks down the road than have to shell out more cash for the inevitable reissue bonus tracks.
It's cheaper to be a DIY track trimmer.
I love the continuing dissection of Cold Roses.
Raft ist rad.
i wanna know the mkelley version of cold roses ... i tried spyin yer notes last night but couldnt read yer writing ... what are the essential tracks that create the masterpiece?
the track off of 'jacksonville city nights' that was from the whiskeytown days is 'my heart is broken' ... it was recorded during the forever valentine.fucker sessions
re: shudder to think
craig wedrens new album is 'lapland' - not 'lapdance' ... sorry - i had shangri-la on the brain folks!
nathan larsons album is 'i must learn to live alone' and hes also done scores for the following films:
* 1998 - High Art (with Shudder To Think)
* 1998 - Velvet Goldmine (with Shudder To Think)
* 1998 - First Love, Last Rites (with Shudder To Think)
* 1999 - his cover of The Cure song Boys Don't Cry was used in the film Boys Don't Cry
* 2000 - Tigerland
* 2002 - Malcolm
* 2002 - Lilja 4-ever
* 2002 - Storytelling
* 2002 - Le Chateau
* 2003 - Mannen som log
* 2003 - Dirty Pretty Things
* 2004 - The Woodsman
* 2004 - Prozac Nation
* 2004 - A Love Song For Bobby Long
* 2005 - Little Fish
* 2005 - Palindromes
sites of note:
www.summerskiss.com (afghan whigs)
www.pogues.com
www.matadorrecords.com/pavement/
www.ryan-adams.com
www.swearingatmotorists.com
www.myspace.com/goldensmog
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudder_To_Think
www.ryan-adams.com
www.jound.com/okkervil (... river)
www.radiohead.com
www.bullshit.com/goldensmog
and
www.albumoftheyear.com/bonnieprince
Sorry, but I gotta ... here's the WOWEE ZOWEE reissue tracklist, please act excited:
>> DISC ONE
01 We Dance
02 Rattled by the Rush
03 Black Out
04 Brinx Job
05 Grounded
06 Serpentine Pad
07 Motion Suggests Itself
08 Father to a Sister Of Thought
09 Extradition
10 Best Friend's Arm
11 Grave Architecture
12 AT & T
13 Flux = Rad
14 Fight This Generation
15 Kennel District
16 Pueblo
17 Half a Canyon
18 Western Homes
19 Sordid [previously unreleased Wowee Zowee session outtake]
20 Brink of the Clouds [Rattled by the Rush b-side]
21 False Skorpion [Rattled by the Rush b-side]
22 Easily Fooled [Rattled by the Rush b-side]
23 Kris Kraft [Father to a Sister of Thought b-side]
24 Mussle Rock [Father to a Sister of Thought b-side]
25 Give It a Day [Pacific Trim EP
26 Gangsters & Pranksters [Pacific Trim EP
27 Saganaw [Pacific Trim EP
28 I Love Perth [Pacific Trim EP
29 Sentinel [previously unreleased Wowee Zowee session outtake]
>> DISC TWO
01 Sensitive Euro Man [I Shot Andy Warhol soundtrack]
02 Stray Fire [previously unreleased Wowee Zowee session outtake]
03 Fight This Generation [recorded March 3, 1994 at Hilversum, Holland]
04 Easily Fooled [recorded March 3, 1994 at Hilversum, Holland]
05 Soul Food [Wowee Zowee jam session w/Doug Easley on piano]
06 It's a Hectic World [from Homage to Descendents tribute album]
07 Kris Kraft [BBC in-studio; Steve Lamacq Evening Session, March 15, 1995]
08 Golden Boys/Serpentine Pad [BBC in-studio; Steve Lamacq Evening Session, March 15, 1995]
09 Painted Soldiers [BBC in-studio; Steve Lamacq Evening Session, March 15, 1995]
10 I Love Perth [BBC in-studio; Steve Lamacq Evening Session, March 15, 1995]
11 Dancing With the Elders [from Medusa Cyclone/Pavement split 7"]
12 Half a Canyon [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
13 Best Friend's Arm [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
14 Brink of the Clouds/Candylad [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
15 Unfair [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
16 Eaily Fooled [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
17 Heaven Is a Truck [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
18 Box Elder [live; Wireless JJJ Radio, Australia, July 7, 1994]
19 No More Kings [from Schoolhouse Rock! Rocks comp]
20 Painted Soldiers [from Kids in the Hall in Brain Candy soundtrack]
21 We Dance (alternate mix) [previously unreleased Wowee Zowee session outtake]
I call my version of COLD ROSES by the name of BEAUTIFUL WHISKEY, SORTA DEAD
CD1 - BEAUTIFUL WHISKEY
Let It Ride
When Will You Come Back Home
Now That You're Gone
Beautiful Sorta
Cherry Lane
How Do You Keep Love Alive
Rosebud
If I Am a Stranger
Dance All Night
Friends
CD2 - SORTA DEAD - ltd edition bonus disc or web bonus for buyers of 'Beautiful Whiskey'
Magnolia Mountain
Sweet Illusions
Easy Plateau
Cold Roses
Meadowlake Street
Mockingbird
Blossom
Life Is Beautiful
are operators standing by?
mkelley-
relistened to swearing @ motorists tonight and im pretty sure i get yer alison chaynes reference ... understand how that could get in the way
pussy titty
-sean
ok...so i did send an email to matt just before showtime this week...many of the albums that were mentioned on air were also on my lists.
just because i did it and would love to receive either validation or hate mail, here 'tis:
albums that are doubles that i'm not so sure about:
1. outkast's speakerboxx/the love below- i don't know much about this kind of music (my kids would be disappointed), but there were some catchy numbers on there...and a lot of filler. one album and this would be a hip "pop" (as opposed to "hop"...it's pretty dang poppy, i think)
2. any of the early two-disc chicago albums...too much of an only OK thing
3. beatles' white album (sorry, greg)- coming from a beatles nut, this isn't easy to digest. it's horribly lopsided...while the first disc is definitely better, there are a few things (yer blue; mother nature's son; sexy sadie; cry baby cry) that could have been added to the best of the first disc (cut out shit like wild honey pie; bungalow bill; don't pass me by; piggies) to make one of the best albums of all time. as is, it's only barely in the middle of the beatles' catalog for me.
4. sandinista!- cool concept...the spontinaity taken way too far...two albums was pushing it...three, WAYYYY too long, even for this clash fan.
5. marvin gaye's here, my dear- maybe one you haven't heard of...i believe it came out in 1978. it was an album to fulfill contractual obligations...all about his divorce from berry gordy's sister. once again, carried way too far...much to bitter/depressing to be a double...hardly enough marvin quality material to make a single, but due to the contractual malarky, let's not blame mr. gaye...way to go, motown.
6. nellie mckay's get away from me- i liked it when i bought it, but it's a bit kitchy for my normal spinning. her voice is interesting in doses...still, after a while, you want to shoot the howling cat and put it out of its misery.
7. smashing pumpkins- mellon collie and the infinite sadness (another great single album made bad with filler...i think it only sold so well because it was cheap and was riding on the coattales of siamese dream)
brilliant doubles and triples (my hit list):
#1- london calling- the clash
stevie wonder- songs in the key of life (yay!)
being there- wilco (not ONE disposable song...come on, boys)
rundgren's something/anything (if for nothing else but hello it's me and i saw the light)
the mac- tusk (i love it...so sue me)
isaac hayes' black moses (dig it...love my stax!)
the stones- exile
RA- cold roses (and gold, if we are talking vinyl here)
harrison's all things must pass
dylan's blonde on blonde
elton john's goodbye yellow brick road
prince's sign of the times...loved this when i was about 10. we wore out a tape copy of this.
unsure (due to not knowing enough about them to make a fair assessment):
husker du- zen arcade
guns and roses- use your illusion 1&2
tupac- all eyez on me
any of the who- the kids are alright; tommy; quadrophenia
happy friday, all.
How many 'banters' do you deduct if the album is plagiarized?
Nice work on the list above, Jen -- I was hoping you'd post that.
Also, Jen schooled me on a comment I made in regards to the two "epics" on Ryan Adams' album 'Gold' -- I called one "Nobody Girl" and I called the other "Shakedown" (short for "Shakedown on 9th Street"). Of course, "Shakedown" is on 'Heartbreaker' and the song I was referring to (in my head anyway) was "Tina Toledo's Street Walkin' Blues."
I cleaned my glasses, restarted the computer, did a virus scan, called my ISP... and Jen's white album comments were still there.
Love ya, Jen, but I now have to put an asterisk after your name.
Wow, first the Cold Roses-bashing, now the White Album ... you guys are animals.
Matt: I say this to you as a friend. Your synopsis/shredding of Cold Roses is horrific. I hope we never disagree more than we do on this one. (But then again, I like the Dead, so you probably think I'm nuts to begin with.)
I digress, "Magnolia Mountain" is the best song since the White Album.
Dude, all I'm saying is Cold Roses is flawed -- if you want to hear me "shred" the Golden Child Whom We Dare Not Criticize, let's talk 'LLOR N KCOR'...
Anyway, I'll throw paper in the fire and tell you that this is the single disc version of 'Cold Roses' that I made myself on CD several months ago:
When Will You Come Back Home
Now That You're Gone
Cherry Lane
How Do You Keep Love Alive
Easy Plateau
Let It Ride
If I Am a Stranger
Dance All Night
Friends
I love Ryan enough to admit he ain't perfect.
Didn't he steal the bridge on "Magnolia Mountain" from some Civil War poet anyway?
i dont think mkelley shredded cold roses ... in fact i think he was rather kind in dissecting it and after listening back to the play by play and reading the comments here i think its a good call on his part ... there are plenty of songs that can fit into two catagories and i tend to agree that i might have had a more favorable view of it if it had been set up as he suggests ... we may never know ... but cold roses gets about as much play from me as heartbreaker and about as much as rock n roll gets from mkelley
i agree that the pedestal should never be too high ... the guy doesnt put out perfection everytime ... but he comes rather close and im glad for everything he has released and i hope he continues to do so ... i really think an entire series of episodes still wouldnt be enough to discuss the life and times of david ryan adams - but it would be fun
one day id love to sit back (honestly) and hear mkelley discuss rock n roll ... really
in the meantime - love is hell (aside from the re-recorded version of 'anybody wanna take me home' might be my fave dra album right now)
(i had originally posted something along the same lines as this - but ive yet to see it appear on the boad - so heres a condensed version)
i think by comparison mkelley was kinder to cold roses than mellon collie
but maybe since the pumpkins dont matter to you anymore yer hold the cold roses critique closer
i think mkelleys thoughts and opinion are valuable - it might help me to grow to apprecciate the album more
which is a good thing
since i hold it to be as about as important as gold - which is to say - that its about as important as mkelley finds rock n roll to be
coincidentally - id love to sit back (honestly) and hear mkelleys thoughts on rock n roll sometimes ... seriously
It's rock and roll.
It's supposed to be flawed.
right?
the album
or
the genre
???
Matt, I hope you'd defend DARKNESS ON THE EDGE OF TOWN or BLOOD ON THE TRACKS with fire in your blood if I were to tell you half of one of their tracklists were good enough to be "online only." (I do, in fact, like Cold Roses THAT much.) I don't mean my defense to be taken personally, and I don't take yours as such.
In the same breath, I gotta say it again, Cold Roses is a masterpiece ... and in my opinion, as lean as a double album can get. The only song I don't care much for is "Rosebud." 17 outta 18 ain't bad.
The only thing perfect about Rock N Roll is David Fricke's teeth. And yes, I too would like to hear Matt's thoughts on RNR. I never really defend that album, but I love it for what it is.
I think Mellon Collie was the first time I considered music to be an "epic" experience. It was big, spaceous, the songs were incredibly ambitious. I was fifteen, I was in love with Corgan's guitar work, and scraping up enough cash to hold that double disc case in my hands was one of the seminal moments of my teenage years. Pretentious, yeah, but I could handle it. It was the last good Pumpkins offering. Since then I have matured and discovered a lot of "epic shit" (mostly within the past 5 years) and I think that album still holds up, sentimental value be damned.
And for the record, Zappa is 'king stink" when it comes to releasing double, and many triple, albums. He has 18 double/triple CD albums, and many of the single compact disc albums were initially double disc LPs. ""Hail to the King, Baby."
It saddens me (somewhat) to think that Zachra's seminal moment was wrapped up in a double jewel case, that hideous Rubix cube of CD packaging. I guess that is testimony to the power of seminal moments.
it saddens me that his seminal moment involved billy corgan
but what do i know ... mine was 'murmur'
Another pitifully trivial Corgan Connection...I celebrated my first post-divorce birthday at a SP show, with headliners RHCP and a third band that wasn't even on the bill, but we spotted their merch on the way in, and thus assumed they were playing (Pearl Jam). The show was at the Indiana Convention Center, which means it was mostly forgettable. 11/24/91
I have several friends that claim that the Pumpkins show at Memorial Coliseum -- in support, I am guessing, of Mellon Collie -- was the single greatest exhibit of live music in this city's history, particularly the performance of a song called "Silverf*ck."
I was not there, but then I never got beyond the spelling of "Mellon Collie" .... much less the filler.
Let's do, though, judge the art and not the artist. Surely Corgan is a prick, but then, so many geniuses are!
As for Cold Roses -- point taken, Soxsmith. I still consider my comments on the album delicate at worst, but, anyway, we agree to disagree.
The cool thing is we could move the discussion to the death penalty or abortion and have no less conviction in the thoughts of the people on this board. Music, tis magical, innt?
NPR interview of Ryan Adams listened to, while stuck in traffic this afternoon...just copy and paste this and listen, I suck at html: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6071185
thanks sara!
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